Comments on: Fashion Etiquette - Is it okay to steal your style from other cultures? http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/ A stylish extravaganza - street style, daily outfits, fashion tips and tricks. Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:58:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: El Basement http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-1421 El Basement Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:26:08 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-1421 I am glad you have posed this question. I think it is very important to be aware and respectful of fashions in cultures other than your own because there are meanings and symbolism that you may not understand. What is just a pretty bracelet to you may be adornment for a particular ceremony such as a wedding or symbolic of religious devotion. I personally choose to wear specifically cultural pieces only if I have personal understanding of what it means to me. I am glad you have posed this question. I think it is very important to be aware and respectful of fashions in cultures other than your own because there are meanings and symbolism that you may not understand. What is just a pretty bracelet to you may be adornment for a particular ceremony such as a wedding or symbolic of religious devotion. I personally choose to wear specifically cultural pieces only if I have personal understanding of what it means to me.

]]> By: ellen http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-820 ellen Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:24:42 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-820 i think it is okay to wear an item from another culture/tradition if it is done in the utmost respect and reverence. but it can be very sensitive because for many cultures, religion is intricately entwined and thus, it becomes offensive if an item is worn as a form of fashion, especially if one does not believe in the religion. so i think it takes a lot of discernment and understanding of the significance of the item before it can be worn so that it does not become frivolous. i think it is okay to wear an item from another culture/tradition if it is done in the utmost respect and reverence. but it can be very sensitive because for many cultures, religion is intricately entwined and thus, it becomes offensive if an item is worn as a form of fashion, especially if one does not believe in the religion.

so i think it takes a lot of discernment and understanding of the significance of the item before it can be worn so that it does not become frivolous.

]]> By: Smaggle Style » Blog Archive » Indian Bracelet - Daily Style http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-789 Smaggle Style » Blog Archive » Indian Bracelet - Daily Style Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:37:17 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-789 [...] much speculation about this bracelet I decided after yesterdays post that it was okay to wear it. I received the most amazing advice and support from gorgeous ladies [...] […] much speculation about this bracelet I decided after yesterdays post that it was okay to wear it. I received the most amazing advice and support from gorgeous ladies […]

]]> By: Natasja http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-788 Natasja Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:33:28 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-788 Wow, and we could go even MORE off topic and speak about people who get tribal/traditional tattoo's to adorn their body. Like this guy I met once who was Samoan and had 'Tribal' tattoos. But they were in NO way samoan-culture related, & when I asked him what tribe he belonged to he laughed at ME!? I was like, you're laughing at ME while you're the Samoan guy wearing stencil-style, flashbook-found 'tribal' tatts?! Ca-razy! His tattoo's meant absolutely nothing to him other than he liked the way they looked. They were a derivative from many different REAL 'traditional' tattoos that had been washed-down and put into a tattoo flash book. I find it Really sad when people don't have any REASON for their tattoo when they get it out of a book on the day. anyway! sorry, rant rant rant!x Wow, and we could go even MORE off topic and speak about people who get tribal/traditional tattoo’s to adorn their body. Like this guy I met once who was Samoan and had ‘Tribal’ tattoos. But they were in NO way samoan-culture related, & when I asked him what tribe he belonged to he laughed at ME!?

I was like, you’re laughing at ME while you’re the Samoan guy wearing stencil-style, flashbook-found ‘tribal’ tatts?! Ca-razy!
His tattoo’s meant absolutely nothing to him other than he liked the way they looked. They were a derivative from many different REAL ‘traditional’ tattoos that had been washed-down and put into a tattoo flash book.

I find it Really sad when people don’t have any REASON for their tattoo when they get it out of a book on the day.

anyway! sorry, rant rant rant!x

]]> By: FJ http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-787 FJ Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:51:08 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-787 Hi, I hopped over here from bits and bobbins. It's a really interesting discussion, and I think you've asked a valid question. I live in Singapore, and it's pretty common to see elements of another culture 'borrowed' in most people's outfits. (Especially nearing and during ethnic holidays such as Chinese New Year and Diwali). I wore a Vietnamese <i>ao dai</i> to my grad night, no less, and I'm Indian! :) I don't think the bangle had anything to do with the saleswoman's attitude. I mean, it could've been something like a wedding bracelet, but from your description of the situation, the woman simply seemed xenophobic. Personally, I feel that as long as the person wearing something from my culture is wearing it respectfully, I just feel that it's cool that they thought to explore other cultures through their outfits. My (very long) two cents worth! Hi, I hopped over here from bits and bobbins.

It’s a really interesting discussion, and I think you’ve asked a valid question.

I live in Singapore, and it’s pretty common to see elements of another culture ‘borrowed’ in most people’s outfits. (Especially nearing and during ethnic holidays such as Chinese New Year and Diwali). I wore a Vietnamese ao dai to my grad night, no less, and I’m Indian! :)

I don’t think the bangle had anything to do with the saleswoman’s attitude. I mean, it could’ve been something like a wedding bracelet, but from your description of the situation, the woman simply seemed xenophobic.

Personally, I feel that as long as the person wearing something from my culture is wearing it respectfully, I just feel that it’s cool that they thought to explore other cultures through their outfits.

My (very long) two cents worth!

]]> By: Lady Smaggle http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-786 Lady Smaggle Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:03:32 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-786 Diva and O.S - This was the best I could come up with in terms of research. http://www.come2india.org/indian-bridal-jewelry.html The jewellery worn at weddings is supposed to symbolise the woman's wealth and set her up for a fruitful life. The jewellery is also designed to highlight the beauty of the woman. They both sound quite lovely to me! What are your thoughts on this? Emma - Thanks for clearly that up! I did a quick seach on it and it came up as the symbol for Satan. How irritating that the top search was incorrect. I hope someone can answer your questions! Diva and O.S - This was the best I could come up with in terms of research.

http://www.come2india.org/indian-bridal-jewelry.html

The jewellery worn at weddings is supposed to symbolise the woman’s wealth and set her up for a fruitful life. The jewellery is also designed to highlight the beauty of the woman. They both sound quite lovely to me!

What are your thoughts on this?

Emma - Thanks for clearly that up! I did a quick seach on it and it came up as the symbol for Satan. How irritating that the top search was incorrect. I hope someone can answer your questions!

]]> By: o.s. http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-785 o.s. Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:48:05 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-785 Came here via Bits and Bobbins...and have really enjoyed your interesting discussion! Lady Snaggle, I think your initial instinct and feeling of unease about something being not quite right was correct. There *is* an ethical issue involved in 'ethnic' fashion. A few of you have emphasized this already, but one big difference between 'catwalk' fashion and 'ethnic' fashion is the degree of religious meaning embodied in the garment. I think a lot of us living in big cities and working in office jobs or whatever lead fairly secular lives (or at least I do), and this is in sharp contrast to how, say, some South Asians live their lives (like say how my mother-in-law does), which can be seeped in religious rituals and observances. The Palestinian keffiyeh is a really intentionally strong and clear mark of affiliation and support for a cultural and political group, so that is a pretty easy example of the power of cultural associations with clothes, but the bindi is also a very strong symbol of religious devotion and aspiration, and this meaning is totally disregarded when worn strictly as a fashion statement. One confusing thing for me, when I first came into contact with Hindi culture and Hindi diasporic cultures, is how aesthetic beauty IS a part of religion; this is really at odds with a Christian/Calvinist/Puritan aesthetic of restraint, simplicity, and plainness that I was more familiar with growing up. So it is actually really striking that this discussion of South Asian fashion associates all that gorgeousness only with Bollywood and media, and not with any religious meaning. And I think this might be at the heart of the shopkeeper's hostility towards your purchase (sorry everyone, I don't think she was a b* although I wish she could have figured out a nicer and more constructive way to express her disapproval). The basic issue which has a residual link to colonial times, is that people (even now and certainly 100 years ago) in "developed countries" frequently think they don't have to pay attention to ALL (or even some of, and especially not the religious and political) layers of meaning in a garment or a custom or whatever, but the reverse does not apply to people from "developing nations". For example, if one is going to an interview for a job in a bank, it is not acceptable for a man to wear sandals with a suit, even though that might be the most comfortable or even stylish; the rules of THAT world's clothing are pretty intense, so I think there might be a certain anger when one's own religious and traditional practices are treated as unimportant and ignored - 'ethnic' as just a look, and not a whole set of cultural meanings. Basically, there is a power imbalance reflected in cultural appropriation. I'm really struggling with this issue too, because, unfortunately, I don't think research alone is the answer; you still have to decide if you want to honor the original context and culture, or if you just want to be informed, and still disregard it, as, for example, people who wear a bindi knowing roughly what it symbolizes, but do not seriously follow any dietary or meditative practices to aspire to reaching the religious state that the bindi represents. Or maybe that is too easy an example too...how about when you think a headscarf used in a certain culture to express wifely modesty is really beautiful, but totally disagree with its connotations for female sexuality? Argh! So hard! And a final question I really can't figure out - when someone from outside the culture takes up a certain garment or look and incorperates it into their big-city, secular look, is that actually degrading the original culture, or is it opening the way for a greater dialogue and appreciation of the culture from which the look was taken? Came here via Bits and Bobbins…and have really enjoyed your interesting discussion! Lady Snaggle, I think your initial instinct and feeling of unease about something being not quite right was correct. There *is* an ethical issue involved in ‘ethnic’ fashion. A few of you have emphasized this already, but one big difference between ‘catwalk’ fashion and ‘ethnic’ fashion is the degree of religious meaning embodied in the garment. I think a lot of us living in big cities and working in office jobs or whatever lead fairly secular lives (or at least I do), and this is in sharp contrast to how, say, some South Asians live their lives (like say how my mother-in-law does), which can be seeped in religious rituals and observances. The Palestinian keffiyeh is a really intentionally strong and clear mark of affiliation and support for a cultural and political group, so that is a pretty easy example of the power of cultural associations with clothes, but the bindi is also a very strong symbol of religious devotion and aspiration, and this meaning is totally disregarded when worn strictly as a fashion statement. One confusing thing for me, when I first came into contact with Hindi culture and Hindi diasporic cultures, is how aesthetic beauty IS a part of religion; this is really at odds with a Christian/Calvinist/Puritan aesthetic of restraint, simplicity, and plainness that I was more familiar with growing up. So it is actually really striking that this discussion of South Asian fashion associates all that gorgeousness only with Bollywood and media, and not with any religious meaning. And I think this might be at the heart of the shopkeeper’s hostility towards your purchase (sorry everyone, I don’t think she was a b* although I wish she could have figured out a nicer and more constructive way to express her disapproval). The basic issue which has a residual link to colonial times, is that people (even now and certainly 100 years ago) in “developed countries” frequently think they don’t have to pay attention to ALL (or even some of, and especially not the religious and political) layers of meaning in a garment or a custom or whatever, but the reverse does not apply to people from “developing nations”. For example, if one is going to an interview for a job in a bank, it is not acceptable for a man to wear sandals with a suit, even though that might be the most comfortable or even stylish; the rules of THAT world’s clothing are pretty intense, so I think there might be a certain anger when one’s own religious and traditional practices are treated as unimportant and ignored - ‘ethnic’ as just a look, and not a whole set of cultural meanings. Basically, there is a power imbalance reflected in cultural appropriation. I’m really struggling with this issue too, because, unfortunately, I don’t think research alone is the answer; you still have to decide if you want to honor the original context and culture, or if you just want to be informed, and still disregard it, as, for example, people who wear a bindi knowing roughly what it symbolizes, but do not seriously follow any dietary or meditative practices to aspire to reaching the religious state that the bindi represents. Or maybe that is too easy an example too…how about when you think a headscarf used in a certain culture to express wifely modesty is really beautiful, but totally disagree with its connotations for female sexuality? Argh! So hard! And a final question I really can’t figure out - when someone from outside the culture takes up a certain garment or look and incorperates it into their big-city, secular look, is that actually degrading the original culture, or is it opening the way for a greater dialogue and appreciation of the culture from which the look was taken?

]]> By: Emma http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-783 Emma Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:30:59 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-783 Sorry to go all the way back to my previous topic, but I wanted to clarify. The inverted pentagram is widely believed to connote evil, primarily because of it's association with an inverted cross (which was used at one point by Crowley and thus became associated with the 'dark side' of magic. Although there is a longer story to this one too...) However, the inverted pentagram is also worn by Gardnerian pagans to signify that they have reached the second stage of initiation. I'd love to hear from a Gardnerian as to whether they are offended by the common uses of the inverted pentagram. Sorry to go all the way back to my previous topic, but I wanted to clarify.

The inverted pentagram is widely believed to connote evil, primarily because of it’s association with an inverted cross (which was used at one point by Crowley and thus became associated with the ‘dark side’ of magic. Although there is a longer story to this one too…) However, the inverted pentagram is also worn by Gardnerian pagans to signify that they have reached the second stage of initiation.

I’d love to hear from a Gardnerian as to whether they are offended by the common uses of the inverted pentagram.

]]> By: Diva http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-782 Diva Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:22:28 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-782 I think that you should do your research. Some items may signify something whether good or bad and you would not want to offend someone by not doing your homework. Some customs have deep meaning behind it and people have to go through certain ceremonies to even have the honor to wear or use it. So to just wear/use the item in the name of fashion in my opinion would be disrespectful. Rather than being rude to you the woman in the store could have stated the meaning (if there was one) behind the bracelet. I think that you should do your research. Some items may signify something whether good or bad and you would not want to offend someone by not doing your homework. Some customs have deep meaning behind it and people have to go through certain ceremonies to even have the honor to wear or use it. So to just wear/use the item in the name of fashion in my opinion would be disrespectful. Rather than being rude to you the woman in the store could have stated the meaning (if there was one) behind the bracelet.

]]> By: Lady Smaggle http://www.smagglestyle.com/2008/02/20/fashion-etiquette-is-it-okay-to-steal-your-style-from-other-cultures/#comment-781 Lady Smaggle Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:14:39 +0000 http://www.smagglestyle.com/?p=783#comment-781 Natunia - wow I never even thought of that! How the behaviour of the wearer could effect whether or not it's offensive. You've opened up a big can of worms with that one girl! :-) Natunia - wow I never even thought of that! How the behaviour of the wearer could effect whether or not it’s offensive. You’ve opened up a big can of worms with that one girl! :-)

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